Page 1 of 25 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Ella “Maggie” Johns Frank 
1980  
Cassette 1, Side 2 
 
 
Winona Weber  00:02 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  00:03 
And she said would I stay with her daughter because she used to have--what do you call it, 
epileptic--? 
 
Winona Weber  00:10 
Oh, epileptic seizures? 
 
Ella Frank  00:12 
Uh-huh. 
 
Winona Weber  00:12 
Oh [sympathetic]! 
 
Ella Frank  00:13 
And she didn't want her alone.  
 
Winona Weber  00:14 
Yeah [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  00:14 
She said--she asked me to stay with her. I was about seventeen, and there was nothing to do. I 
was just staying there, taking care of the house, so-- 
 
Winona Weber  00:22 
Oh.  
 
Ella Frank  00:23 
So then she had some sweetgrass she used. That's when I made the-- 
 
Winona Weber  00:29 
Page 2 of 25 
 
What is--? 
 
Ella Frank  00:32 
[Inaudible cross talk]--sweetgrass and cattail.  
 
Winona Weber  00:33 
It's all-- Oh I see.  
 
Ella Frank  00:35 
And then raffia, that, uh, design is. 
 
Winona Weber  00:38 
Oh really? It's raffia? Geez.  
 
Ella Frank  00:42 
The design. 
 
Winona Weber  00:44 
The, uh, the red design?  
 
Ella Frank  00:46 
Yeah, the red. Do you know this finishing here? I forgot how that's done.  
 
Winona Weber  00:52 
Oh, no, really [sympathetic]? 
 
Ella Frank  00:53 
I wish I could learn. I can do the rest, it's easy, anybody could do the others. 
 
Winona Weber  00:58 
Uh-huh [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  00:59 
But, uh-- So that's finished in there.  
 
Winona Weber  01:03 
That's--that's nice edge. 
 
Ella Frank  01:04 
You know? Yeah, well there's a way to do it, but, uh, it's--it got away from me.  
 
Winona Weber  01:10 
Did you do it all by hand? Or did you do it with a needle? 
 
Ella Frank  01:13 
No, it's by hand. This is needle here.  
Page 3 of 25 
 
 
Winona Weber  01:17 
Uh-huh [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  01:17 
Looks like whoever made that finished it up with a needle and what is that? That'd be raffia 
there.  
 
Winona Weber  01:27 
Uh-huh. Yeah, I've seen that. This is how Aunt Irene finishes off her baskets, you know.  
 
Ella Frank  01:33 
Who does? 
 
Winona Weber  01:35 
Aunt Irene? Irene Shale? She does baskets. 
 
Ella Frank  01:39 
I didn't even know. 
 
Winona Weber  01:42 
Gee, that's raffia. I was gonna ask you what kind of dye it was, I couldn't figure it out. 
 
Ella Frank  01:47 
Well, you could--you buy the raffia, and then you can dye it yourself. I used to do it when--  
 
Winona Weber  01:54 
What did you use for dye? 
 
Ella Frank  01:55 
[Laughs.] I don't know, we used to buy it.  
 
Winona Weber  01:59 
Oh, I see. 
 
Ella Frank  02:01 
Dye your own raffia. 
 
Winona Weber  02:02 
Uh-huh [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  02:05 
And sometimes you can buy it already dyed, but I think it was cheaper if you dye it yourself. 
 
Winona Weber  02:09 
Oh, probably. 
Page 4 of 25 
 
 
Ella Frank  02:12 
Pretty colors.  
 
Winona Weber  02:14 
It is bright! [Inaudible.] 
 
Ella Frank  02:16 
I used to make them, you know. Sometimes this big around [gestures] and with a lid, you know. 
Taper back down [inaudible, rustling]. 
 
Winona Weber  02:29 
Is this just a little knick-knack basket? 
 
Ella Frank  02:34 
I don't know. Putting stuff here and there and--[trails off, inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  02:42 
Hmm.   
 
Ella Frank  02:43 
Once in a while, you've been digging around, there's so much to do, I can't even finish doing 
anything. Can't accomplish nothing.  
 
Winona Weber  02:56 
Oh [sympathetic]? 
 
Ella Frank  02:56 
One lady told me, she says, "I wish you would make baskets." 
 
Winona Weber  03:02 
[Laughs.] 
 
Ella Frank  03:02 
Yeah, so you want me to sit around [laughs]-- 
 
Winona Weber  03:03 
And make baskets? 
 
Ella Frank  03:06 
Yes! [They laugh.] "I wish you'd make baskets!" Gee, that requires a lot of sitting. 
 
Winona Weber  03:14 
Oh, it does. 
 
Ella Frank  03:15 
Page 5 of 25 
 
And oh, god. I try to work in the yard, you know. It's a losing battle. 
 
Winona Weber  03:19 
Oh, yeah [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  03:20 
The brush is getting away from me, and I let it go too long. I lost my boy, you know, and I-- 
 
Winona Weber  03:25 
Yeah [sympathetic]. 
 
Ella Frank  03:26 
--I lost interest in everything. I didn't care, you know, if I got anything done.  
 
Winona Weber  03:31 
Mhm [sympathetic].  
 
Ella Frank  03:32 
And then the brush really took over down there. I can't even do it. But I did run that mower down 
on the hill on this side. That was hard. I run it for about an hour. I think I'd do better with a 
smaller mower. But this one here is pretty big. Pull it uphill [chuckles]. Takes a lot of back 
power. Hills are steep!  
 
Winona Weber  04:04 
Yeah, they are around here!  
 
Ella Frank  04:06 
Oh, everywhere you go, it's just over here, it's worse-- 
 
Winona Weber  04:08 
Either like this [gestures] or like this [gestures]. [They chuckle.] 
 
Ella Frank  04:09 
Yeah, you're either going down or you're coming up. Oh, there's so much to do on the yard here, 
and I can't get any help. 
 
Winona Weber  04:17 
Mmm [sympathetic].  
 
Ella Frank  04:20 
There's some kind of organized group that--that's supposed to help us out. They won't come up 
here. Like mowing, you know. And they are paid--I don't know who pays them, but they do it--
they'll do it. They'll help some of them down here. But they--they just can't come up here.  
 
Winona Weber  04:43 
Hmm.  
Page 6 of 25 
 
 
Ella Frank  04:43 
There's this stuff here it has to be packed off, and I can't even lift it, so it is set there. This old 
washing machine on the porch. Another one out there. Kids don't even work for money. You 
know? 
 
Winona Weber  05:02 
[Chuckles.] Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  05:03 
They won't. [Inaudible.] It wouldn't be so hard to mow down there, but they--when they do mow, 
they mow just where it's easy, you know, but back there, they just kept letting go. That sod is that 
deep, and [inaudible]. It didn't quit though. It kept running.  
 
Winona Weber  05:24 
Kept on going. Yeah, that's pretty good.  
 
Ella Frank  05:26 
It did pretty good. So I got it cut. I was glad I did because the drain field to the septic tank--You 
know, we don't have no--what do you call it where your--sewer system is city, you know, it goes 
into-- We don't have [cross talk]--you have to have your own--Huh? 
 
Winona Weber  05:50 
Yeah we just got that in Westport. Just--a year ago? Two years ago? 
 
Ella Frank  05:56 
You mean for a sewer? 
 
Winona Weber  05:58 
Uh-huh [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  05:58 
Good! 
 
Winona Weber  06:00 
We just got that. We had a septic tank when we first moved in down here. 
 
Ella Frank  06:06 
Well, that's what I've got here. I think most everyone here has-- 
 
Winona Weber  06:10 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  06:11 
--Everybody has-- 
 
Page 7 of 25 
 
Winona Weber  06:12 
You have to have a pumping station, all kinds of stuff for a sewer system. 
 
Ella Frank  06:17 
This never has been pumped out. They're huge, this-- Course it's only me here.  
 
Winona Weber  06:23 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  06:24 
This big around [gestures], two of 'em. 
 
Winona Weber  06:26 
Uh-huh [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  06:26 
And then the drain field runs about 40 feet that way. And one of the [inaudible] the type. They're 
this big around and it's very-- 
 
Winona Weber  06:37 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  06:40 
--It was leaking on this one joint there. And then, I found it, and boy, that just made me sick to 
think of. I thought I had good plumbing. 
 
Winona Weber  06:50 
Oh, geez. 
 
Ella Frank  06:51 
So my boy dug down there, and he seen where the trouble was, so he patched it. But I don't trust 
it. I said, "Leave it dug up," I said, "until I'm sure it's not leaking through there." 
 
Winona Weber  07:04 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  07:04 
It's just a leak on the end, way up on that way. So that's why I cut the grass there, so they'd have 
to dig enough to fight the brush. [Chuckles.] 
 
Winona Weber  07:14 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  07:15 
So it just had to be done. Well, it's hard to get help now. 
 
Page 8 of 25 
 
Winona Weber  07:25 
Are there very many Indians around in this area? I know there are more that way, but right about 
in here? In this area, you know, like Bay Center? 
 
Ella Frank  07:38 
One is just, uh--Lawrence. [Cross talk.] 
 
Winona Weber  07:48 
Sort of. [Laughs.]  
 
Ella Frank  07:49 
Well, to me she was right about, like that [gestures]. 
 
Winona Weber  07:53 
Yeah [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  07:57 
Then this one woman I was telling you about, uh, Mrs. [?Turf?]. You could get quite a bit out of 
her [clock chimes], but it'd be hard to, for you to find her [inaudible]. She's a [?Gracie?]--Her--I 
mean her name was [?Turf?]. I mean she was a [?Gracie?].  It's a big family--was a big family. 
Many of them around here. And then there's Lo--Mrs. [?Loggerfriend?] further up. They live on 
a ranch, it's still on the same road. And then there's, uh, Beatrice [?Beatty?]. She lives on the 
same road, too. She's not a lot of Indian, but I mean, they're part, you know, some Indian. 
 
Winona Weber  08:17 
Oh [sympathetic]! Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  08:51 
They're not that old, you know they're in their late fifties, she would be. 
 
Winona Weber  08:58 
Yeah. Were you brought up around mostly other Indians? Or were you-- 
 
Ella Frank  09:08 
I was with Indians all the time. 
 
Winona Weber  09:12 
Did you go to school with other Indians, [inaudible]? 
 
Ella Frank  09:14 
No, this was a little white school. 
 
Winona Weber  09:16 
Uh-huh [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  09:18 
Page 9 of 25 
 
I went to school in Taholah for a little while. [Clears throat.] Until third grade, or something, 
fourth grade. 
 
Winona Weber  09:26 
Gee, how'd you--how'd you live in Taholah? What were you doing down there?  
 
Ella Frank  09:30 
I stayed down, and we called him our Uncle [?Elm?] Chinoose. You know there's a Chinoose 
down there in Taholah?  
 
Winona Weber  09:36 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  09:37 
The Chinoose boys were my mother's cousins. 
 
Winona Weber  09:41 
Oh!  
 
Ella Frank  09:41 
I don't know how distant, but they were cousins.  
 
Winona Weber  09:43 
Uh-huh [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  09:44 
So after I lost my mother, well, I was around them a lot. 
 
Winona Weber  09:49 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  09:49 
Him and his wife, family. They went and moved to Taholah, and I went with them. Why, I still 
don't know. But I was with them.  
 
Winona Weber  09:57 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  09:58 
So I went to school down there. Not very long, though.  
 
Winona Weber  10:02 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  10:06 
Page 10 of 25 
 
I don't know if I was in the same grade--Freda--you know, Freda Charley. You know her, don't 
you? 
 
Winona Weber  10:12 
Yeah, I know Freda.  
 
Ella Frank  10:14 
[Inaudible.] Seem like I was in her grade. I'm not sure why they were mean. They picked on me. 
 
Winona Weber  10:26 
Was it because you were from the outside? 
 
Ella Frank  10:29 
I don't know.  
 
Winona Weber  10:30 
My mother says that she had trouble when she first moved to Taholah from Shoalwater here 
because she said the Taholah kids had a tendency to pick on her--[cross talk] 
 
Ella Frank  10:42 
Well they don't like Bay Center, let's face it. [Chuckles.] 
 
Winona Weber  10:44 
I guess so, because boy, they didn't-- My mom didn't get along very well with a lot of those kids! 
 
Ella Frank  10:50 
Freda and her cousin--I think this other gal's her cousin--Forgot her name now--She was a s--
they all are. [Banging, clanking, rustling.] 
 
Winona Weber  11:03 
--Does that for a while when it erases itself. [Inaudible cross talk, sounds of dishes.] 
 
Ella Frank  11:19 
Did I explain enough there? 
 
Winona Weber  11:20 
Um--do you have any other restrictions on the tape? 
 
Ella Frank  11:28 
Anything that'll make me more enemies, [laughs, inaudible]. 
 
Winona Weber  11:31 
I think that's it, to tell you the truth. Because mostly, you talked about, you know, living with 
your mother, and-- 
 
Ella Frank  11:38 
Page 11 of 25 
 
That's the only one [?that you can have for free, though?]. 
 
Winona Weber  11:41 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  11:42 
There's a big wheel down there. [Sounds of dishes. Inaudible cross talk.] --wonders.  
 
Winona Weber  12:11 
Hmm?  
 
Ella Frank  12:12 
I said I could really make wonders. [Dishes clanking. More inaudible conversation.] 
 
Winona Weber  12:24 
I think I'll go down and interview Freda. [Winona giggles, they laugh.]  
 
Ella Frank  12:29 
[?Give her?] a chance to hear them. [Laughs.] I hope not.  
 
Winona Weber  12:33 
No, we--it'll--it'll all be erased here.  
 
Ella Frank  12:37 
Oh, good.  
 
Winona Weber  12:40 
And then--and then I'll punch it so it doesn't-- [Shuffling sounds. More dishes clanking. 
Inaudible cross talk.] What this does is-- This one gives me permission to interview you. And 
this one gives us permission to use the tape for history--historical [inaudible]. That's why we 
don't sign that one until after the page is made. That way--that way--  
 
Ella Frank  13:27 
Who listens to it? 
 
Winona Weber  13:29 
Oh, just um-- Someone who's--who's interested in, you know, finding history-- That darn thing is 
supposed to erase when you do that. That blasted thing does not--[recorder shifting.] It might just 
be the tape recorder. But it'll-- 
 
Ella Frank  13:48 
Yeah, I just-- You know, I don't have a good picture of my mother. 
 
Winona Weber  13:53 
Really [sympathetic]? 
 
Page 12 of 25 
 
Ella Frank  13:53 
I don't, and the one I have--if I ever see it again--I'll try to find it. 
 
Winona Weber  14:03 
What is it? What kind of picture is it? 
 
Ella Frank  14:06 
It's just, a you know, snap-- You know? I mean, kind of like a group picture.  
 
Winona Weber  14:13 
Mhm [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  14:14 
So you can--it's only about that tall, like that [gestures]-- 
 
Winona Weber  14:16 
Yeah most of the pictures that I've seen are only-- 
 
Ella Frank  14:18 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  14:18 
--Just like this [gestures].  
 
Ella Frank  14:19 
Yeah, about like that. And then it's a group, you know, a lot of them in there, and she was in 
there. They're just kind of good one of her. I mean, sh-- Oh gosh, she was real small. Narrow, 
narrow chest and flat-chested. 
 
Winona Weber  14:36 
[Laughs.] 
 
Ella Frank  14:36 
And I'm busty [chuckles]! I don't know what happened to me. But it's the only one I got of her.  
 
Winona Weber  14:44 
Hmm! 
 
Ella Frank  14:44 
And I think I have one of Maggie, you know. My cousin Maggie. 
 
Winona Weber  14:48 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  14:49 
I have one of her. 
Page 13 of 25 
 
 
Winona Weber  14:52 
We're kind of looking for pictures of women just doing things. Whether they're-- Snapshots are 
good because--because they caught women actually doing something, like when they were 
cutting the fish up, ready to get smoked, or going out ready to go clam digging, or anything like 
that. That's--that's the type of pictures that they're really interested in, a lot. Because while we--
we know what women look like when they're all dressed up, you know? Give them their real 
nice clothes and go to a photographer, and you know, get their picture taken. But we don't know 
so much but they looked like when they were out. Well, we've got pictures of farm women 
driving a team, you know, and stuff like that. And you don't have pictures of everyday women. 
I've got a picture of my mother picking cherries. I've got a picture-- Well, I have got one posed 
picture. It's of my grandmother with her basket[inaudible]--  
 
Ella Frank  16:06 
My [inaudible]. --picture of her. In those days, they didn't, you know, have family pictures. 
 
Winona Weber  16:15 
Yeah [affirmative]. [Inaudible cross talk.] I don't know why. I haven't been able to find too many 
pictures. I've got a real nice picture of a woman at Taholah-- Yeah, it's the early 1900s. Digging 
in the, working in a garden. She had a really big garden, you could tell there was all this plowed 
ground behind it. And she was working in it. And I got one picture like that. And I got one 
picture of a woman--she and her son of a friend were just sort of sitting on a log. They had just 
come in from clam digging, and they're just sitting there in their hip boots. But I haven't--  
Mildred [?Hitchcock?]. She, um [recorder moving around]. Her name was McCrory. Mildred 
McCrory. They called her Dee-Dee. She--She went to Chemawa [Indian School] in '30--Well she 
graduated in '37. She went to Chemawa for three years, I think?  
 
Ella Frank  17:01 
[Inaudible cross talk. Recorder moving.] What is your mother's name? Dee-Dee [inaudible]? 
 
Winona Weber  17:04 
Mhm [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  17:05 
I [?know?] her. 
 
Winona Weber  17:34 
Yeah, she's my mom. 
 
Ella Frank  17:36 
That's your mother! I wondered if she had any daughters?  
 
Winona Weber  17:40 
Yeah, she had two of us. I've got an older sister. And she lives at Copalis Beach. And then there's 
me, and then there's a whole bunch of boys [laughs]. 
 
Page 14 of 25 
 
Ella Frank  17:50 
I know there's a boys [inaudible]. Susie, you know, the one I showed you a picture of?  
 
Winona Weber  17:50 
Yeah? 
 
Ella Frank  17:57 
She had a crush on [?Robin?]. 
 
Winona Weber  18:00 
Oh, really [laughs]? 
 
Ella Frank  18:02 
Yeah, they just fell for each other, and she brought him down here--They were both going to 
Grays Harbor College. She brought him down here, and everybody thought, "Oh he's something, 
[inaudible]."  
 
Winona Weber  18:17 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  18:17 
And he'd come around. He--he ate here-- He'd eat here with us. 
 
Winona Weber  18:22 
Oh, yeah?  
 
Ella Frank  18:27 
Pretty soon in the rumor--[Recorder clicks.] This lady had a family, you know, they had a ranch. 
And he got me a job, and then I had to--forty dollars a month, that was big money in those days 
[chuckles]. 
 
Winona Weber  18:40 
Oh, yeah [affirmative]! 
 
Ella Frank  18:43 
Forty dollars a month. And I wasn't through, wasn't through school. Grade school, you know. 
That's all I have, six years of school. But I wanted to--I kept going, you know, I'd just get myself 
up and get my niece ready, and we'd go to school. I have a niece just five years younger than me.  
 
Winona Weber  18:56 
Huh.  Uh-huh [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  18:59 
She's dead [inaudible]. It was school, and I just kept going. So when I had kids, boy, they asked 
that at least they can go through high school. 
 
Page 15 of 25 
 
Winona Weber  19:25 
Really? 
 
Ella Frank  19:26 
I just seen to it because I couldn't finish. I wanted to go to high school so bad, but in order to go, 
you had to go by train to [?Hoquiam?].  
 
Winona Weber  19:35 
Oh, really?  
 
Ella Frank  19:38 
Yeah, that was the only way we could go. [Cross talk.] 
 
Winona Weber  19:41 
Hmm! Where would you --Where would you have caught the, the train? There-- 
 
Ella Frank  19:45 
There was a depot there. [Inaudible] train stopped there. And it stopped at Humptulips. It was 
Chinoose Creek. Train stopped there if you flagged it down.  
 
Winona Weber  19:58 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  19:59 
And then the next stop would be, uh-- I think it's Humptulips, they called the depot there. It's 
right by the river. 
 
Winona Weber  20:11 
Huh! And there's nothing left of those? 
 
Ella Frank  20:13 
Not now.  
 
Winona Weber  20:14 
I've been all through there on a horse, and--and there's nothing there. 
 
Ella Frank  20:18 
Huh! 
 
Winona Weber  20:18 
There's railroad tracks there. [Cross talk.] 
 
Ella Frank  20:21 
Yeah, you could go to high school, but you had to go by train in the morning. And even some of 
the white kids couldn't go. 
 
Page 16 of 25 
 
Winona Weber  20:32 
Oh, yeah [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  20:33 
The [?Klein?] there were some [?Kleins?] that lived there, across from us-- We lived on this 
island, and they lived just down the river. Across the river, just kind of down--Their daughters 
went to high school.  
 
Winona Weber  20:48 
Oh, yeah? 
 
Ella Frank  20:48 
The [?Kleins?]. I wonder what became of them.  
 
Winona Weber  20:54 
Did you--go did you ever go into Hoquiam on that train? 
 
Ella Frank  20:57 
Yeah that's the only way we went to town. Yeah, we'd catch the morning train and come back on 
the afternoon train. 
 
Winona Weber  21:07 
Did you--did you pretty much stay real close to the--right there at the [?inaudible hump?] where 
you were living? Did you do much traveling around? 
 
Ella Frank  21:07 
Unh-uh [negative]. We went, moved to the beach during clam season, and then after clam 
season, we'd move right back there to Chinoose Creek. 
 
Winona Weber  21:32 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  21:33 
[Inaudible] commercial clam digging in those days. 
 
Winona Weber  21:35 
Oh, yeah, they were still commercial digging the Ocean Shores in [inaudible cross talk]. 
[Laughs.] Sometimes those buckets were as big as I was, but [inaudible] tracking up this beach.  
 
Ella Frank  21:52 
[Inaudible] strong. 
 
Winona Weber  21:56 
What--what season did you--did you dig the clams?  
 
Ella Frank  22:01 
Page 17 of 25 
 
March, April, May. We'd move over there--[cross talk]. They were big-- 
 
Winona Weber  22:09 
Nice fat clams. 
 
Ella Frank  22:11 
And you couldn't eat through the clams.  
 
Winona Weber  22:13 
Oh, I'll bet! What-- Did you sell them?  
 
Ella Frank  22:17 
Yeah, there was buyers right there. There were buyers right there. I don't know where they 
shipped them, but they bought clams. Boy, there were a lot of them, they were big. That's uh, 
Copalis, you know. 
 
Winona Weber  22:34 
Yeah [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  22:35 
I hadn't heard of any clams on Taholah Beach then. I never heard of any. 
 
Winona Weber  22:43 
Mm! Maybe the Indians up there were keeping them to themselves. 
 
Ella Frank  22:46 
I don't think so, I don't think anybody was digging there. Everybody dug on the commercial 
beach. 
 
Winona Weber  22:52 
Yeah, down at Copalis and Ocean Shores. 
 
Ella Frank  22:56 
Yeah. 
 
Winona Weber  22:59 
Did you ever take the clams home? 
 
Ella Frank  23:01 
Oh, yeah, we ate clams all the time. 
 
Winona Weber  23:01 
All the time? 
 
Ella Frank  23:06 
Page 18 of 25 
 
I used to get so tired cooking that--you know, my brother liked clams. He could eat clams every 
meal. I told him I [inaudible] was tired of clams. He said, "You don't have to eat it. Just cook it!" 
[Laughs.] 
 
Winona Weber  23:18 
"Just cook it!" [They laugh.] Did you ever preserve the clams? Did you can them or anything? 
 
Ella Frank  23:26 
Not till I got here. 
 
Winona Weber  23:28 
Oh, I see. 
 
Ella Frank  23:28 
I don't think they ever canned them over there. I don't think they even knew it could be canned! 
 
Winona Weber  23:35 
Oh, the clams?  
 
Ella Frank  23:36 
I don't think so, [inaudible]. I've tried to do everything, but I never did remember. I even smoked 
fish. When I was young.  
 
Winona Weber  23:46 
Uh-huh. 
 
Ella Frank  23:46 
I don't remember ever preserving clams. Boy, they're delicious canned.  
 
Winona Weber  23:53 
Oh, I just love smoked clams. Oh! 
 
Ella Frank  23:57 
We never smoked them, either. 
 
Winona Weber  23:59 
Yeah, I've talked to other people that smoked clams. I was just wondering if you guys did. 
 
Ella Frank  24:05 
No, I didn't. I'd remember. This lady up here said somebody told her--you do it in the oven. I 
think what she does. She's not Indian, of course. She's a German. 
 
Winona Weber  24:16 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  24:16 
Page 19 of 25 
 
She says they are delicious. [Cross talk.] She said she did it in the oven. 
 
Winona Weber  24:23 
Oh! [Inaudible], I've never heard of that. 
 
Ella Frank  24:29 
I'll have to ask her again.  
 
Winona Weber  24:30 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  24:31 
I'm not sure what I'm talking about now. [Inaudible.] 
 
Winona Weber  24:38 
Oh [sneezes.] 
 
Ella Frank  24:41 
You've got quite the storm out there.  
 
Winona Weber  24:43 
Oh, poor [chuckles]--poor plant.  
 
Ella Frank  24:45 
Looks real beat up.  
 
Winona Weber  24:46 
Gee. 
 
Ella Frank  24:46 
Yeah, you know, I kind of don't know how to take care of that-- 
 
Winona Weber  24:50 
Ferns? 
 
Ella Frank  24:51 
Yeah.  
 
Winona Weber  24:52 
Well, I've just heard that you keep them in a wet place. [Cross talk.] 
 
Ella Frank  24:58 
--I've heard it needs a lot of water, and then you're supposed to spray the leaves, and--I watered 
it, but I want to repot it. 
 
Winona Weber  25:06 
Page 20 of 25 
 
Uh-huh [affirmative]. 
 
Ella Frank  25:06 
I never do it, but I want to. 
 
Winona Weber  25:11 
I always heard--[Cross talk.] 
 
Ella Frank  25:11 
It was given to me so, if it was given to me, I try to take care of it. 
 
Winona Weber  25:16 
Try to keep it going! Yeah. I've heard that putting it in the bathroom sort of place to keep it 
[inaudible].  
 
Ella Frank  25:23 
Hey, maybe I'll do that.  
 
Winona Weber  25:25 
--Because it you know, with the baths and all the water and stuff, lot of humidity--[inaudible]. 
 
Ella Frank  25:30 
I always shower instead of bathe. 
 
Winona Weber  25:32 
Yeah [affirmative]. Yeah, I like to shower, too. 
 
Ella Frank  25:37 
Get through quicker. I shower most days. Not today. I'd rather--[Cross talk.] 
 
Winona Weber  25:46 
Oh yeah. Oh, it looks like it's salvageable. [Inaudible] blankets. [Inaudible cross talk.] It looks 
kind of cramped. 
 
Ella Frank  26:01 
It does. 
 
Winona Weber  26:03 
Looks like it needs--needs some more room there. Did your mother smoke fish? 
 
Ella Frank  26:09 
Mhm. I did, too. Not now, though. That '62 storm blew [chuckles] our smokehouse over--
everything went. 
 
Winona Weber  26:21 
Oh [sympathetic]!  
Page 21 of 25 
 
 
Ella Frank  26:21 
Fruit trees. We had a lot of good fruit trees on this end there. Everything went over. Our barn 
went. Smokehouse.  
 
Winona Weber  26:33 
Columbus Day storm? 
 
Ella Frank  26:33 
Mhm, '62. 
 
Winona Weber  26:35 
Yeah, I've heard of it. Huh! Gee [sympathetic].  
 
Ella Frank  26:36 
Just--just trees were uprooted all over. And we had some blue plum trees, and they were 
uprooted, three of them over here. They were just uprooted. I think our pear tree went. We had a 
pear tree over here.  
 
Winona Weber  26:55 
Mhm.  
 
Ella Frank  26:56 
Chicken house went. Barn. Nice barn. Little. Just enough for one cow. 
 
Winona Weber  27:02 
Yeah.  
 
Ella Frank  27:07 
None of our windows went. 
 
Winona Weber  27:08 
Hm! 
 
Ella Frank  27:13 
Really took its toll. 
 
Winona Weber  27:14 
Lot of people lost barns and stuff like that in that storm. 
 
Ella Frank  27:18 
We lost ours. Next day, we had our insurance canceled [laughs]. See, lot of the shingles off of 
this house, just--they were laying all over the place. Shingles.  
 
Winona Weber  27:44 
M-hm [affirmative]. 
Page 22 of 25 
 
 
Ella Frank  27:44 
This is--probably [inaudible]. Somebody's seen him go by here, and he was looking at all the 
damage, you know. I guess he was afraid we were gonna file a claim or something, you know, on 
the insurance.  
 
Winona Weber  27:53 
Uh-huh [affirmative].  
 
Ella Frank  27:54 
And I think he was afraid of that. Next day--the next day or something--we got a letter. 
Canceled.  
 
Winona Weber  28:01 
Oh [sympathetic]! 
 
Ella Frank  28:02 
Yeah. Insurance was cancelled. We had no intention of doing anything. It hasn't been insured 
since. I should do that. 
 
Winona Weber  28:12 
Well, that's a pretty lousy thing to do, though. 
 
Ella Frank  28:15 
I know it!  
 
Winona Weber  28:16 
That's what you buy insurance for! 
 
Ella Frank  28:17 
That's a rip-off, and it was quite expensive then. Cause, see. We had kind of poor wiring, see, it's 
been rewired now. It should be safer. We have just--not the 220--it's weaker than that. What is it, 
one tw--one something? Anyways. 
 
Winona Weber  28:19 
110.  
 
Ella Frank  28:24 
One [hundred and] ten, okay. You couldn't have a stove or dryer. 
 
Winona Weber  28:47 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  28:49 
But it's rewired, but I'm not sure it's good enough. 
 
Page 23 of 25 
 
Winona Weber  28:54 
Well, I noticed you had the baseboard heater and the fridge and stuff [inaudible]. 
 
Ella Frank  29:01 
Yeah, that was required. It cost $600.   
 
Winona Weber  29:04 
Ooh! 
 
Ella Frank  29:07 
It's a lot of house to wire. 
 
Winona Weber  29:10 
What kind of--what kind of board is that? It's used on the inside here. I've seen that a lot in older 
houses. 
 
Ella Frank  29:18 
These narrow stuff? 
 
Winona Weber  29:20 
Yeah. I notice it's got a--Oh, gee, what's that-- It's a [?chair rail?]. We don't have that in more 
modern houses. 
 
Ella Frank  29:20 
I don't know. [Chair moves.] Oh, it's old.  
 
Winona Weber  29:36 
I think it's neat. 
 
Ella Frank  29:36 
I planned on-- 
 
Winona Weber  29:38 
I like old houses [chuckles]. 
 
Ella Frank  29:40 
I planned on toilets being rebuilt.  
 
Winona Weber  29:43 
Yeah. 
 
Ella Frank  29:44 
That's a new building altogether, that-- 
 
Winona Weber  29:47 
Front room over there? 
Page 24 of 25 
 
 
Ella Frank  29:48 
Mm [affirmative]. This is the old one. This is four bedrooms upstairs. [Cross talk.] Course, it's 
kinda-- There's only two now that's got beds in it. The others are just storing.  So that [inaudible]. 
I don't know. I'd never do that again. Build a big house, and-- It's all [inaudible]. Stuck with a big 
house.  
 
Winona Weber  30:06 
Yeah. Yeah. Do you use this stove? 
 
Ella Frank  30:24 
Mhm [affirmative]. If the wind's not blowing, I use that all together for heat. I didn't use it today. 
I got wood in the oven, but--[Cross talk.] 
 
Winona Weber  30:32 
Yeah, I noticed that you had wood there. What--what's the problem with it when the wind 
blows? 
 
Ella Frank  30:39 
I'm all sprayed with chimney fire. Let's face it.  
 
Winona Weber  30:41 
Oh, I see.  
 
Ella Frank  30:42 
I feel a draft. Do you? 
 
Winona Weber  30:45 
I don't know! I'll go check the door [gets up]. 
 
Ella Frank  30:49 
I'll turn this heater on. There's a cord there to turn the lights.  
 
Winona Weber  30:59 
There! 
 
Ella Frank  31:01 
Was the door open? 
 
Winona Weber  31:04 
Unh-uh [negative]! 
 
Ella Frank  31:04 
Oh. 
 
Winona Weber  31:04 
Page 25 of 25 
 
It was closed. I don't know. 
 
Ella Frank  31:05 
Where did I feel a draft from? 
 
Winona Weber  31:07 
I don't know! I don't know where that's coming from. It, um--[recorder turns off]. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 